Skill Cost and CSKILL Overhaul - Revision history

Tir-Gwaith: /* SKILLCOST Global tag */ PARENTCLASS, and CLASSLIST= as alternate part of tag

2008-09-27T22:39:04Z

‎SKILLCOST Global tag: PARENTCLASS, and CLASSLIST= as alternate part of tag

Tir-Gwaith: /* SKILLCOST Global tag */ layout for SKILLCOST syntax defintion

2008-09-27T21:58:00Z

‎SKILLCOST Global tag: layout for SKILLCOST syntax defintion

Tir-Gwaith: /* Global LST changes */ break into subsections

2008-09-27T21:52:10Z

‎Global LST changes: break into subsections

Tir-Gwaith: /* Current discussion notes */

2008-07-29T22:42:57Z

‎Current discussion notes

Tir-Gwaith at 22:42, 29 July 2008

2008-07-29T22:42:19Z

Tir-Gwaith: /* Introduction */

2008-07-29T22:41:11Z

‎Introduction

James: Set intro to a level 1 heading

2008-07-29T21:28:32Z

Set intro to a level 1 heading

Karianna: /* Global ADD Changes */

2008-07-29T16:03:55Z

‎Global ADD Changes

Karianna: /* Game Mode Misc Info File changes */

2008-07-29T16:03:23Z

‎Game Mode Misc Info File changes

Karianna: /* Game Mode Misc Info File changes */

2008-07-29T16:02:09Z

‎Game Mode Misc Info File changes

@@ Line 84: / Line 84: @@
 ===SKILLCOST Global tag===
 (3c) Create SKILLCOST
-Variables Used (x): Skill Cost from Game Mode File (COST in Game Mode
+<pre>Syntax:
-file for this Skill Cost must NOT be PROHIBITED)
+SKILLCOST:x|[CLASSLIST=y|]z,z
-Variables Used (y): ALL
+SKILLCOST:.CLEARALL
 Variables Used (y): Text (Class Name)
-Variables Used (y): TYPE=Text (Class Type)
+Variables Used (x): Skill Cost from Game Mode File
-Variables Used (y): CLASS (usable only in CLASS files, for ease of .COPY)
+  (COST in Game Mode file for this Skill Cost must NOT be PROHIBITED)
 Variables Used (z): Text (Skill name)
 Variables Used (z): TYPE=Text (Skill type)
-Variables Used (z): ALL
+Variables Used (z): ALL (all skills)
-Variables Used (z): LIST (pulls from items selected in the CHOOSE:
+Variables Used (z): LIST (pulls from items selected in the CHOOSE: token in the object)
 token in the object)
 </pre>
 (3d - ISSUE D)

@@ Line 84: / Line 84: @@
 ===SKILLCOST Global tag===
 (3c) Create SKILLCOST
+<pre>
 Syntax:
-SKILLCOST:x|y|z,z
+SKILLCOST:x|y|z,z<b>
 SKILLCOST:.CLEAR
@@ Line 100: / Line 100: @@
 Variables Used (z): LIST (pulls from items selected in the CHOOSE:
 token in the object)
 (3c1 - ISSUE C)

@@ Line 67: / Line 67: @@
 ==Global LST changes==
 (3a) Deprecate CSKILL, CCSKILL {replaced by SKILLCOST, 3c}
@@ Line 81: / Line 82: @@
 SKILLCOST:CLASS|TYPE=Monster|Knowledge (Arcana)
 (3c) Create SKILLCOST

@@ Line 14: / Line 14: @@
 easiest to just define a new variable (I use CSL - that's open for discussion), and keep the concept of ADDTOLEVEL as Tir defined it.
-This is an updated proposal based on the discussions - can we have someone wikify this, please?
+This is an updated proposal based on the discussions - can we have someone wikify this, please? (Done, that is this page. :p - Tir)
 Note there are still 4 open issues, some with "R1" "R2" (response 1,

← Older revision		Revision as of 22:42, 29 July 2008
Line 8:		Line 8:

	In order to accomplish this, and remove hardcoding for future game systems, this is a proposal to move much of the back-bone framework of class skill lists into GameMode defined terms. The other major goal is to remove ambiguity, especially in the global vs. class-only tags "CSKILL" and "CCSKILL".		In order to accomplish this, and remove hardcoding for future game systems, this is a proposal to move much of the back-bone framework of class skill lists into GameMode defined terms. The other major goal is to remove ambiguity, especially in the global vs. class-only tags "CSKILL" and "CCSKILL".
		+
		+	== Current discussion notes ==
		+
		+	So I've thought about the ADDTOLEVEL issues, and I don't think that works well as proposed. The challenge in what was proposed is that CL has a specific meaning in formula, and we don't want to change that based on the context - meaning in this formula and not in others. That's very difficult to get correct... I ran through about 4 alternatives only to find they have some other problem, so it's
		+	easiest to just define a new variable (I use CSL - that's open for discussion), and keep the concept of ADDTOLEVEL as Tir defined it.
		+
		+	This is an updated proposal based on the discussions - can we have someone wikify this, please?
		+
		+	Note there are still 4 open issues, some with "R1" "R2" (response 1,
		+	response 2) showing the ongoing discussion that is not resolved. I
		+	left "D" open due to the SpellList discussions that took place and
		+	just wanted to double check on what this should be.

	==Game Mode Level file changes==		==Game Mode Level file changes==

@@ Line 5: / Line 5: @@
 ==Introduction==
-So I've thought about the ADDTOLEVEL issues, and I don't think that works well as proposed. The challenge in what was proposed is that CL has a specific meaning in formula, and we don't want to change that based on the context - meaning in this formula and not in others. That's very difficult to get correct... I ran through about 4 alternatives only to find they have some other problem, so it's
+Pathfinder does not have the concept of "Cross-Class" skills, instead it has a Class skills and "Non Class" skills, with equal cost, but Class skills getting a bonus.  Display name of Non Class skills is important, since the Cost of both Class and Non Class skills is the same.
-This is an updated proposal based on the discussions - can we have someone wikify this, please?
+In order to accomplish this, and remove hardcoding for future game systems, this is a proposal to move much of the back-bone framework of class skill lists into GameMode defined terms.  The other major goal is to remove ambiguity, especially in the global vs. class-only tags "CSKILL" and "CCSKILL".
 ==Game Mode Level file changes==

@@ Line 206: / Line 206: @@
 granted to selections)
-Global PRExxx changes:
+==Global PRExxx changes==
 (6a) Deprecate PRECSKILL
@@ Line 218: / Line 218: @@
 y is a Skill Cost from the Game Mode File
 z is a skill or TYPE=Text
 ==Skill LST Changes==

@@ Line 22: / Line 22: @@
 ==Game Mode Misc Info File changes==
-(2a) Deprecate SKILLCOST_CLASS [default is 1 if not used in Game Mode Misc Info file] {value placed into COST, 2f}
+(2a) Deprecate SKILLCOST_CLASS [default is 1 if not used in Game Mode Misc Info file] {value placed into COST, 2f}<br>
-(2b) Deprecate SKILLCOST_CROSSCLASS [default is 2 if not used in Game Mode Misc Info file] {value placed into COST, 2f}
+(2b) Deprecate SKILLCOST_CROSSCLASS [default is 2 if not used in Game Mode Misc Info file] {value placed into COST, 2f}<br>
-(2c) Deprecate SKILLCOST_EXCLUSIVE [default is 0 (illegal to "buy") if not used in Game Mode Misc Info file] {value placed into COST, 2f}
+(2c) Deprecate SKILLCOST_EXCLUSIVE [default is 0 (illegal to "buy") if not used in Game Mode Misc Info file] {value placed into COST, 2f}<br>
+(2d) Create a new line Tag SKILLCOSTGROUP: in Game Mode Misc Info<br>
-(2d) Create a new line Tag SKILLCOSTGROUP: in Game Mode Misc Info
+(2e) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called DISPLAY, is display name<br>
-(2e) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called DISPLAY, is display name
+(2f) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called COST, special value PROHIBITED (for SRD EXCLUSIVE cost), takes an integer<br>
-(2f) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called COST, special value PROHIBITED (for SRD EXCLUSIVE cost), takes an integer
+(2g) Create a new variable called CSL (Class Skill Level), controlled by the ADDTOLEVEL item {see 2h}. This variable must be resolved in context to a ClassSkillList (if you don't understand what this means, it's a code thing {the source argument to getVariableValue}, not a data thing)<br>
-(2g) Create a new variable called CSL (Class Skill Level), controlled by the ADDTOLEVEL item {see 2h}. This variable must be resolved in context to a ClassSkillList (if you don't understand what this means, it's a code thing {the source argument to getVariableValue}, not a data thing)
+(2h) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called ADDTOLEVEL, controls CSL variable<br>
-(2h) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called ADDTOLEVEL, controls CSL variable
+(2i) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called MAXRANK, takes a Formula.<br>
-(2i) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called MAXRANK, takes a Formula.
+(2j) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called MODIFIER, defines how the base formula for a skill is derived. (assists Pathfinder.)<br>
 (2j1 - ISSUE A) MODIFIER cannot be used if COST is PROHIBITED?
 R1- why not? I don't think it will do anything...
 R2- Because if it doesn't perform a function, there isn't need to let
-a user do it - leads to false expectations of behavior.
+a user do it - leads to false expectations of behavior.<br>
 (2k - ISSUE B) Looking at the docs, spotted a UI Change. Right now, there is Max Ranks for Class and Cross class skills. I think that will need to be dynamically set up from the GameMode defines? Would that require another tag in the SKILLCOSTGROUP line, or should we just show them all?
-R1 - where is this in the UI?
+R1 - where is this in the UI?<br>
-(2l) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called DEFAULTCOST: takes argument YES. Is allowed on one (and only one) SKILLCOSTGROUP line
+(2l) Create a new token in SKILLCOSTGROUP: line, called DEFAULTCOST: takes argument YES. Is allowed on one (and only one) SKILLCOSTGROUP line.<br>
-Potential Examples of gamemode tags (3.5e doesn't have Exclusive, but you get the idea, separate lines in the LST file are separated by blank lines in this message)
+Potential Examples of gamemode tags (3.5e doesn't have Exclusive, but you get the idea, separate lines in the LST file are separated by blank lines in this message)<br>
 <gamemode 3.0/3.5>
-SKILLCOSTGROUP:CLASS DISPLAY:Class COST:1 ADDTOLEVEL:YES MAXRANK:CSL+3 MODIFIER:min(RANK,MAXRANK)+KEYSTAT
+SKILLCOSTGROUP:CLASS DISPLAY:Class COST:1<br>
-SKILLCOSTGROUP:CROSSCLASS DISPLAY:Cross Class COST:2 ADDTOLEVEL:YES MAXRANK:(CSL+3)/2 MODIFIER:min(RANK,MAXRANK)+KEYSTAT
+SKILLCOSTGROUP:CROSSCLASS DISPLAY:Cross Class COST:2<br>
-SKILLCOSTGROUP:EXCLUSIVE DISPLAY:Exclusive COST:PROHIBITED ADDTOLEVEL:NO MAXRANK:0 MODIFIER:KEYSTAT
+SKILLCOSTGROUP:EXCLUSIVE DISPLAY:Exclusive COST:PROHIBITED<br>
 <pathfinder>
-SKILLCOSTGROUP:CLASS DISPLAY:Class COST:1 ADDTOLEVEL:YES MAXRANK:CSL MODIFIER:min(RANK,MAXRANK)+KEYSTAT+if(RANK>=1,TrainedBonus,0)
+SKILLCOSTGROUP:CLASS DISPLAY:Class COST:1<br>
-SKILLCOSTGROUP:NONCLASS DISPLAY:Non-Class COST:1 ADDTOLEVEL:YES MAXRANK:CSL MODIFIER:min(RANK,MAXRANK)+KEYSTAT
+SKILLCOSTGROUP:NONCLASS DISPLAY:Non-Class COST:1<br>
 ==Global LST changes==